Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Gre
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Gre Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:52 pm

Hello everyone,

Thanks to this forum, I successfully converted a ninebot SNSC1.1

Today I'm facing a power problem, coming from the SNSC control board.

Maybe one of you have experienced and solved the same problem?

I have an ES4 model to compare the SNSC performances.

The power delivered by the SNSC is pretty much less than the power from the ES4.

When I compare the performances of the two scooters, the ES4 is far beyond. It accelerate much faster, climbs more easily.

Both control boards have the exact same custom firmware installed.

If I install the official firmware, the problem stays.

I switched between the components, such as dashboards, batteries, motors, etc, it has come sure that the problem is coming from the SNSC control board.

If I install the SNSC control board on my ES4, the performances are dropping, and the SNSC scooter with my ES4 control board installed is now far beyond.

Is there a solution to this problem, like a mother board "physical" fix?
ndmccutcheon
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:32 am

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby ndmccutcheon Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:02 pm

I’m not sure, but I think SNSC 1.1 uses the lower power 250W ES1 motor. Would this possibly explain the power difference?

Also while I’m here I might as well ask, what’s the difference between the ES and SNSC models in the first place? I’ve only come across ES models so I wouldn’t know.
Gre
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Gre Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:09 pm

From the motor side, I opened up the two motors and there is no visible difference between them.

And when the SNSC motor is plugged with ES4 electronics, it goes fast as the ES4 motor.

Still, on it there is 36v/300w inscription written on both
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Lothean
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Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Lothean Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:27 pm

Hello!
Both SNSC models have a 300w motor.
However, the motor is different from one scooter to another.
You see, the winding process isn't always exactly the same, so some motors have different characteristics.
But for the described differences, it seems kinda weird. Can you give precise data?
Gre
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Gre Thu May 02, 2019 12:02 pm

Hello,

I can't give precise data about this power difference.
But I can easily see it. Especially when I see the other scooter get away very quickly lol.

Inside the motors, I counted the wires coming and going from the wirings and it is exactly the same number.

The wirings have also the same dimensions, motors have the same number of magnets, etc..

I found on scooter talking, that other people have experienced the same thing with converted SNSC.

They solved the problem with a control board swap, and by trashing the SNSC board.

I ordered a control board from AliExpress to test it.

Will have it in 15 days. Keep you in touch.
ndmccutcheon
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:32 am

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby ndmccutcheon Thu May 09, 2019 1:55 am

I recently got a hold of an SNSC 1.0 model, and now I see what you're talking about. Even with the external battery, it definitely feels less powerful than my ES4 with identical custom firmware. I wonder what's different on the control board that causes this... I think I'll make a new firmware with a higher motor power constant for my SNSC.

Update: I charged it up to 100%, and it started to feel just as powerful as my ES4. I think it just wasn’t utilizing the external battery, as they were at very different percentages during my tests.

So I’m not sure what your issue could be. I guess if swapping the control board worked for you then it worked ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ary221
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 5:16 pm

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Ary221 Mon May 20, 2019 5:35 pm

I have a scooter SNSC1.0 DESSAS OF RENT if you change controller and panel it works normal? I want controller and panel of ninembot es2 !!!! help me please
Gre
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby Gre Fri May 24, 2019 12:53 pm

Hello everyone, here is my feedback :


Like you ndmccutcheon, I had the same problem with external battery, but for me it was detected and I could see it in segway and ninebattery apps.

However, it seems than no power was drained from it, resulting with poor performances.

Try to solve the problem by disassembling the battery, accessing to the BMS board and pressing the K1 switch to reset. The internal led was blinking to indicate that the reset was successful, but no effect.

I tested the voltage, it is good. The fuses are OK too.

I flashed the BMS firmware by downgrading then upgrading it with ES RollBack, but no luck either.

Still no clue about this problem cause. if someone experienced and solve this, please let me know..

Edit : inspired by your post ndmccutcheon, I charged both the external and internal batteries at 100% until the charger led become green. I re installed the batteries and the controller, and now the problem is solved, my battery is fully working, delivering all its power! So thank you

The SNSC has now better performances, but still slightly under the ES4.





I received and mounted my AliExpress control board, and uploaded the same CFW than my ES4.
This Ali board is a copy, but there it is : I have now the same performances than my ES4! Very happy.

I compared the AliExpress control board with the SNSC and I saw no visible differences (except for the GPS tracker plug).

Took the scooter out for a ride, but at the first big downhill and brake usage, the scooter turned off, with me trying to stop with the rear brake and ending up running in the grass with the scooter!

Then, the scooter was impossible to power up and the front wheel motor was blocked. Had to carrying it to home.

I disassembled the controller and found some tracks blowed up near the MOSFETs, and 3 dead MOSFETs.

The problem origin comes from the weak power of the Ali board MOSFETs (ST - 110N7F6 - 110A / 68v), versus ES4 (NCE - NCEP85T14 140A / 85v) and SNSC (NCE - NCEP01T13A 130A / 100v)

I repaired it by soldering the tracks and changed the fried up MOSFETs using the SNSC components.

Few rides later with full accelerations and brake usage, and with full battery charges/discharges, the scooter is working very well.


To improve reliability, I'm planning to change MOSFETs by using INFINEON IRLB4030PBF (180A / 100v) and MOSFET drivers from MT8006A (300v) to Texas Instruments UCC27710DR (600v). I found this solution on a french forum :
https://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php?po ... 10#t242678

That's all for the moment folks.
jcrestrepom
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:21 pm

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby jcrestrepom Mon May 27, 2019 2:46 am

Thank you very much for your contribution, you can send photographs of those you repaired and the sites where you changed the components and the same components changed. Thank you.,
kiki626
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 am

Re: Power differences between ES4/SNSC control boards

Postby kiki626 Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:31 am

Yes , please let us know how this went. I've recently purchased the same components so i'm curious to know how everything worked out

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