ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

wielandgeorg
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:32 pm

ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby wielandgeorg Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:33 am

So ive learned a lot about these and I have helped people on here but I have some questions.

I have CFW 1.3.9

I burned up a ESC after disabling kers on my ES4 but my MPC # was like 48,000 or so. My friend was riding it and suddenly the motor was rough and i thought it was the motor but its actually was the esc i guess not properly powering all 3 wires anymore.

Now with kers on the scooter hits like a hard coded top speed every time at 21mph it starts braking. it did that too with kers off but you could go faster by just letting go of throttle of course. is there a solution for that?

Why did it burn up the esc so quickly? does turning kers off just increase the risk that much or was it just a weak esc I had?

I dont mind kers slowing me down when I let off the throttle especially since I havent had esc troubles again after leaving it on but I would like it to not auto brake at 21mph every time.

Thank you, any help would be greatly appreciated.
ScootScootX
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:12 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby ScootScootX Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:19 pm

I wanted to add that I'm also having this problem with my ES4. I flashed it to both 1.3.3 and 1.3.9 and while the MPC definitely changed it still applies brakes when accelerating downhill past ~19 mph. With both firmware versions I had the max speed set to 40kmph, so I would think that I wouldn't get this behavior (downhill speed limiting) until ~25mph.

Am I wrong is assuming this?

Thanks!
wielandgeorg
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby wielandgeorg Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:06 am

Sure wish someone with knowledge in this area would chime in and give us some insight on how to possibly adjust this.
DB Cooper
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby DB Cooper Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:10 pm

Hi, I've had every Ninebot scooter at various times, ES1, ES3, ES2 and ES4 (owned in that order). I can tell you that no amount of adjusting will allow you to overcome the auto-braking sensation. This is hard coded in lower levels of the controllers. My experience has been roughly as follows:

ES1 = Stock max speed 13 mph / 21 kph
ES1 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph
ES3 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph (notably better acceleration)
ES2 with CFW = Max Speed 19 mph / 31 kph
ES4 with CFW = Max Speed 23-24 mph / 36-38 kph (sometimes on flat it seems to kick in around 21-22 mph / 34-35 kph

Roughly at each max speed whether flat or downhill, the auto-brake will occur. On ES1, ES2 and ES3 it is fairly subtle and goes down 1-2 kph, but on ES4 it is quite a bit more aggressive often going down 5-6 kph at a time. When going downhill, the ES4 auto-brake kicks in at 37'ish kph, on flat it seems more like 34-35 kph.

I'm now playing with max speed in CFW to try and have normal firmware control top speed rather than engage auto-brake. I've tried 38 and 37 kph and even on flat when I hit 37, it auto-brakes. I then tried 36 and 35 kph max speeds and still on flat I would hit the auto-brake, so going to try 32 and then work my way up. I can really only test once per day based on my commute.

Anyways, it's been my conclusion through research that there is no way to modify this without making significant changes to controllers (soldering, etc.). For ES4, >35 kph is pretty darn fast.
DB Cooper
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby DB Cooper Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:29 pm

Hi, I've had every Ninebot scooter at various times, ES1, ES3, ES2 and ES4 (owned in that order). I can tell you that no amount of adjusting will allow you to overcome the auto-braking sensation. This is hard coded in lower levels of the controllers. My experience has been roughly as follows:

ES1 = Stock max speed 13 mph / 21 kph
ES1 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph
ES3 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph (notably better acceleration)
ES2 with CFW = Max Speed 19 mph / 31 kph
ES4 with CFW = Max Speed 23-24 mph / 36-38 kph (sometimes on flat it seems to kick in around 21-22 mph / 34-35 kph

Roughly at each max speed whether flat or downhill, the auto-brake will occur. On ES1, ES2 and ES3 it is fairly subtle and goes down 1-2 kph, but on ES4 it is quite a bit more aggressive often going down 5-6 kph at a time. When going downhill, the ES4 auto-brake kicks in at 37'ish kph, on flat it seems more like 34-35 kph.

I'm now playing with max speed in CFW to try and have normal firmware control top speed rather than engage auto-brake. I've tried 38 and 37 kph and even on flat when I hit 37, it auto-brakes. I then tried 36 and 35 kph max speeds and still on flat I would hit the auto-brake, so going to try 32 and then work my way up. I can really only test once per day based on my commute.

Anyways, it's been my conclusion through research that there is no way to modify this without making significant changes to controllers (soldering, etc.). For ES4, >35 kph is pretty darn fast.
So further update, I really couldn't get it from auto-braking even using 32 kph max speed. I went back to OTA/OFW 1.5.1 and saw the scooter max at 30 kph. So I then applied CFW without adjusting max speed and just doing Alternate Throttle Program. I noticed I can now go about 35 kph easily and on completely flat it doesn't auto-brake, it's like it goes exactly 35 kph and holds it there which seems to be right before auto-brake. Once i go downhill, it does go to 36 and then I get auto-brake but it feels slightly more subtle. So I tihnk I'm just going to leave it on CFW 1.3.9 with Alt Throttle Program and use it there. Basically it's just as fast top speed without constantly activating auto-brake. I'd love some other people to sample and test?
Earthy
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:25 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby Earthy Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Hi, I've had every Ninebot scooter at various times, ES1, ES3, ES2 and ES4 (owned in that order). I can tell you that no amount of adjusting will allow you to overcome the auto-braking sensation. This is hard coded in lower levels of the controllers. My experience has been roughly as follows:

ES1 = Stock max speed 13 mph / 21 kph
ES1 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph
ES3 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph (notably better acceleration)
ES2 with CFW = Max Speed 19 mph / 31 kph
ES4 with CFW = Max Speed 23-24 mph / 36-38 kph (sometimes on flat it seems to kick in around 21-22 mph / 34-35 kph

Roughly at each max speed whether flat or downhill, the auto-brake will occur. On ES1, ES2 and ES3 it is fairly subtle and goes down 1-2 kph, but on ES4 it is quite a bit more aggressive often going down 5-6 kph at a time. When going downhill, the ES4 auto-brake kicks in at 37'ish kph, on flat it seems more like 34-35 kph.

I'm now playing with max speed in CFW to try and have normal firmware control top speed rather than engage auto-brake. I've tried 38 and 37 kph and even on flat when I hit 37, it auto-brakes. I then tried 36 and 35 kph max speeds and still on flat I would hit the auto-brake, so going to try 32 and then work my way up. I can really only test once per day based on my commute.

Anyways, it's been my conclusion through research that there is no way to modify this without making significant changes to controllers (soldering, etc.). For ES4, >35 kph is pretty darn fast.
So further update, I really couldn't get it from auto-braking even using 32 kph max speed. I went back to OTA/OFW 1.5.1 and saw the scooter max at 30 kph. So I then applied CFW without adjusting max speed and just doing Alternate Throttle Program. I noticed I can now go about 35 kph easily and on completely flat it doesn't auto-brake, it's like it goes exactly 35 kph and holds it there which seems to be right before auto-brake. Once i go downhill, it does go to 36 and then I get auto-brake but it feels slightly more subtle. So I tihnk I'm just going to leave it on CFW 1.3.9 with Alt Throttle Program and use it there. Basically it's just as fast top speed without constantly activating auto-brake. I'd love some other people to sample and test?
I can agree with this after testing. I started with the OFW 1.5.1 and then used the CFW 1.3.9 with only the Alternative Throttle Algorithm, and it unleashed the extra speed up to 34-35 kph on flat ground. It feels like it combined all the benefits of the smooth breaking from 1.5.1 with the increased max speed. But what I am unsure of, what is the Motor Power Constant on 1.5.1? and adding only the Alternative Throttle, does that mean it is less likely to damage the wires due to over heating?
DB Cooper
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby DB Cooper Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi, I've had every Ninebot scooter at various times, ES1, ES3, ES2 and ES4 (owned in that order). I can tell you that no amount of adjusting will allow you to overcome the auto-braking sensation. This is hard coded in lower levels of the controllers. My experience has been roughly as follows:

ES1 = Stock max speed 13 mph / 21 kph
ES1 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph
ES3 with CFW = Max Speed 16 mph / 25 kph (notably better acceleration)
ES2 with CFW = Max Speed 19 mph / 31 kph
ES4 with CFW = Max Speed 23-24 mph / 36-38 kph (sometimes on flat it seems to kick in around 21-22 mph / 34-35 kph

Roughly at each max speed whether flat or downhill, the auto-brake will occur. On ES1, ES2 and ES3 it is fairly subtle and goes down 1-2 kph, but on ES4 it is quite a bit more aggressive often going down 5-6 kph at a time. When going downhill, the ES4 auto-brake kicks in at 37'ish kph, on flat it seems more like 34-35 kph.

I'm now playing with max speed in CFW to try and have normal firmware control top speed rather than engage auto-brake. I've tried 38 and 37 kph and even on flat when I hit 37, it auto-brakes. I then tried 36 and 35 kph max speeds and still on flat I would hit the auto-brake, so going to try 32 and then work my way up. I can really only test once per day based on my commute.

Anyways, it's been my conclusion through research that there is no way to modify this without making significant changes to controllers (soldering, etc.). For ES4, >35 kph is pretty darn fast.
So further update, I really couldn't get it from auto-braking even using 32 kph max speed. I went back to OTA/OFW 1.5.1 and saw the scooter max at 30 kph. So I then applied CFW without adjusting max speed and just doing Alternate Throttle Program. I noticed I can now go about 35 kph easily and on completely flat it doesn't auto-brake, it's like it goes exactly 35 kph and holds it there which seems to be right before auto-brake. Once i go downhill, it does go to 36 and then I get auto-brake but it feels slightly more subtle. So I tihnk I'm just going to leave it on CFW 1.3.9 with Alt Throttle Program and use it there. Basically it's just as fast top speed without constantly activating auto-brake. I'd love some other people to sample and test?
I can agree with this after testing. I started with the OFW 1.5.1 and then used the CFW 1.3.9 with only the Alternative Throttle Algorithm, and it unleashed the extra speed up to 34-35 kph on flat ground. It feels like it combined all the benefits of the smooth breaking from 1.5.1 with the increased max speed. But what I am unsure of, what is the Motor Power Constant on 1.5.1? and adding only the Alternative Throttle, does that mean it is less likely to damage the wires due to over heating?
My understanding is Alt Throttle does not adjust MPC, only the mapping of how throttle works. It basically accelerates faster and changes the feel, but as stated, I do not believe it adjusts MPC. With it on and nothing else, it does cruise up to 37 kph without issue and then pretty aggressively will hit the brakes. Sometimes even if you back off it still keeps the braking on until it gets it back down to about 32 kph.
pgre9150
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:10 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby pgre9150 Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:13 pm

I think the auto breaking is because of the limited voltage. It would go faster with higher voltage, I think.
DB Cooper
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby DB Cooper Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:19 pm

I think the auto breaking is because of the limited voltage. It would go faster with higher voltage, I think.
I'm not sure, I think it's a fail safe somewhere, perhaps for protection of equipment, regen and/or rider.
DB Cooper
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ES4 top speed questions. it brakes at 21mph?

Postby DB Cooper Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:23 pm

I'm looking for any ES4 people who want to combine notes. I've flashed at least 100 firmwares on various ES models, and only recently did I discover that Alt Throttle Program seems to overwrite speed settings. Even if I do Alt Throttle with a Speed of 30 kmh, I can easily go way passed 30 kmh. I do feel Alt Throttle accelerates faster and brakes stronger (which does make me wonder if it has different power settings). Also, my testing shows with Alt Throttle the scooter reliably goes 37-38 kmh (23-24 mph) before hitting a very hard auto-brake. Also, sometimes if you're at 35-36 kmh with partial throttle, it'll do it. It's quite unreliable and even on flat, it is too hard to modulate the accelerator to stay right before the auto-brake. As a result, I really want to find the appropriate setting to at least prevent auto-brake on flat ground. Regardless, to try and avoid the harsh auto-braking, I've reverted to 1.3.9 CFWs without Alt Throttle.

Here's my testing so far, in all cases I only adjusted top speed:
36 kmh = No auto-brake on flat, hitting reliable top speed on flat of 34 kmh (21'ish mph)
38 kmh = No auto-brake on flat, hitting reliable top speed on flat of 34 kmh (21'ish mph)
40 kmh = Auto-brake kicks (not as violent as Alt Throttle one though) in on flat at 36 kmh (22.5'ish mph)

So even here, I'm not seeing the reported speedometer speed line up with the max speed. I'm going to try 39 again, and then perhaps do more testing on 38 as I wasn't really staring at the speedo enough. Also, my area has a lot of hills, so there's only a few areas that are flat enough to really test it.

Just wondering if anyone else wants to help test. I can really only test twice per day when going back and forth between my car.

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